What We Can Learn From This Accident?

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What We Can Learn From This Accident?

Post by cobalter »

http://www.sltrib.com/news/2587027-155/ ... -bear-lake

This tragic accident occurred last week on Bear Lake north of Salt Lake City. Tragic loss of life when it seemed all the safety precautions/responsibilites had been taken. Having worked in EMS for many years in the CO mountains I always look at these incidents and try to determine what if anything I would have done differently. Hard to say in retrospect as I was not there. When younger I used to read a little booklet called "Accidents in North American Mountaineering" that dissected all the fatal climbing accidents the previous year. Took those to heart. Maybe there is something in the boating world equivalent to this?

I have read a few things from several of the rescue reports a boater might consider in this accident but not to criticize these boaters in lieu of additional investigative reports and the things they did right:

The water was 53 degrees - ones ability to self rescue decreases rapidly the colder the water. Wet suits, polypro shirts under life jackets might buy some time. No cotton

Learn to read the weather where you boat - seems there may have been some brief early signs of a rapid storm buildup as noted by those who live in the area.

Consider a SPOT locator or EPIRBS. Maybe the time frame here was too short here but a consideration if rescue teams have the receiver.

They were over 3 miles from shore late in the afternoon requiring a long swim once separated from the boat.

These folks seemed to do a lot of things right and thus the survivors. Cold water hypothermia and time in the water seemed to be the killer here.

Have never owned a dedicated ski boat but maybe that was a factor in the high waves?

If the waves were 6+ feet can our Cobalt 20-23 BRs ride this out with a bow cover, walkthrough and windshield closed or other strategies? Would like to hear opinions on this as well since that is what many of us have.

I do not know the length, make or model of this boat but it overturned and did not sink. There are some photos if you search of a rescue boat with the boat in tow. Seems it might have been a typical 21-23 ft. ski boat.

Would like to hear other opinions. I usually boat in warmer waters and narrower lakes but always try to plan for the worst case scenario. I look forward to reading lessons learned from this published by a boating authority after the facts are in. I look forward to opinions from this forum as many of us probably have similar size boats.
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Re: What We Can Learn From This Accident?

Post by jhnmdahl »

Most Cobalts have a significant amount of freeboard relative to competitive boats, but mine's a bowrider and I don't expect I'd last long at all if waves started coming over the bow. Only boats 20' or shorter are required to float once capsized (the rule is they have to float level, even if inverted), and most Cobalts will simply sink to the bottom like a rock.

My thoughts on the linked story are:

1. No way I'd be a few miles off shore without a radio on board. Even a cheap handheld marine radio could have saved them from a significant part of their ordeal.

2. Even in the relatively calm waters of Minnesota lakes, I check the weather before going out and keep an eye on the weather while out with the boat.

There are probably more things than this that could have been done, but these two strike me as things that I would likely have done even without the lesson of this latest accident.

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Re: What We Can Learn From This Accident?

Post by cobalter »

Good idea about the radio. I never launch without my portable. Interesting about the non flotation of the Cobalts - guess I assumed there would be some buoyancy. Another reason to have an emergency pack ready to grab if the boat goes down. I need to think about the flotation of that gear so it can be retrieved on the water. One reason I got the bow cover - think that would buy some time on my 210 if the waves got that big.
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Re: What We Can Learn From This Accident?

Post by Big Block Power »

Good info guys. I didn't know that was a rule for 20' and under. I thought most boats were suppose to float.learn something new every day. Im with everyone here check the weather before you go out. Storms do pop up and be ready. Our big lake we boat on is 15 miles wide by about 40 miles long but only 20 feet deep.I have seen it claim lives.It gets ugly in a hurry. In my boat I think I could ride out any storms on it. If I was out in Michigan no way in hell would I go far off shore. Those big lakes scare the delights out of me. I would want twins.
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Re: What We Can Learn From This Accident?

Post by AsLan7 »

"Those big lakes scare the delights out of me."



Thought I would bump this thread so everyone can read the short article one more time.
http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?i ... type=CMSID


After clicking on the link and reading about the family boat tragedy, I thought the same thing as John...heartbreaking. Definitely lessons to be learned which John mentioned in his original post--excellent advice.

Even though our Cobalt's have a nice freeboard to make them relatively safe, they also have that curved down bow to make them look very sleek, sexy, and cool.

Because of that, they are VERY susceptible to taking on water in a hurry if you bury the bow--especially bow riders. This is very easy to do with a boat load of folks in the bow and going thru an inlet with roller waves in particular. Be careful.

And yes BBp....as your quote up there mentions...the big lakes should "scare the delights" out of anyone here as they deserve a healthy dose of respect. Watch that weather; wave conditions; and wind shift. Be safe out there folks.



....believe it or not, those are Lake Erie pics below:
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Re: What We Can Learn From This Accident?

Post by AsLan7 »

Had to end it on a nice Lake Erie pic too. 8-) 8-) 8-)
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Re: What We Can Learn From This Accident?

Post by Bfun220 »

Sorry to wreck your picture perfect ending but I thought I should share a story.
I dont like to admit it but, I was out fishing once on lake michigan in a 16 foot and stayed too long. On the way in waves built to 6-7 feet. At that piont I kept it slow, bow up and pointed into the waves. I didn't care about any direction other than heading towards shore and not taking a wave from the side.
After a long stressful ride I was lucky enough to make it into the small bay where we had launched. 3 other boats went down that day. But no life's were lost. I always kept an eye on the weather but it took this trip to realize if I'm in doubt, its time to get out. This happened many years ago when I was much younger. Lesson learned.
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Re: What We Can Learn From This Accident?

Post by AsLan7 »

:) Thanks for sharing that Bfun220. Exactly why we have this thread--so we can all learn from each other. Cheers
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Re: What We Can Learn From This Accident?

Post by Kate »

I'm late to this topic, but the lesson is eternal. Either that boater didn't know what he should have known or he ignored the facts.

I lived in that area and boated at that lake. At some 6,000', it's a mountain lake, well-known for its volatile weather -- especially that time of the year. In fact, the day of the disaster, thunderstorms were predicted for the area. The boater was a local, not a tourist. And he was in the wrong type of boat (fully loaded!) to risk such conditions.

As one weather site notes: "This sort of weather situations is, however, not all that uncommon in Utah, highlighting the need for boaters to remain vigilant for rapidly changing conditions when storms are around. It's especially important to recognize that the strong winds and rapid temperature changes associated with outflow boundaries can sometimes propagate well away from the generating storms, in some cases into areas experiencing clear skies." https://wasatchweatherweenies.blogspot. ... agedy.html

Some claim: The "freak" weather and winds "came out of nowhere." No. It was all completely predictable and avoidable. Place the blame where it belongs: squarely on the shoulders of the captain.
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Re: What We Can Learn From This Accident?

Post by akorcovelos »

Bfun220 wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:25 pm Sorry to wreck your picture perfect ending but I thought I should share a story.
I dont like to admit it but, I was out fishing once on lake michigan in a 16 foot and stayed too long. On the way in waves built to 6-7 feet. At that piont I kept it slow, bow up and pointed into the waves. I didn't care about any direction other than heading towards shore and not taking a wave from the side.
After a long stressful ride I was lucky enough to make it into the small bay where we had launched. 3 other boats went down that day. But no life's were lost. I always kept an eye on the weather but it took this trip to realize if I'm in doubt, its time to get out. This happened many years ago when I was much younger. Lesson learned.
Same thing happened to me in my old 16' fishing boat. I did check the weather, but Lake Michigan doesn't always listen to the weather report. Went from dead calm to 3' white caps in 15 minutes. I had to run backwards for 2 miles to keep waves from coming over the transom (closed bow), scary stuff.
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Re: What We Can Learn From This Accident?

Post by Bfun220 »

akorcovelos wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:46 am Lake Michigan doesn't always listen to the weather report.
So true.
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Re: What We Can Learn From This Accident?

Post by sailor55330 »

It's a sad situation for certain, but possibly avoidable. I understand that sometimes weather will come up unexpectedly but at the end of the day, it was probably avoidable with vigilance. I am highly skeptical that there were 10ft waves on an inland lake or even 6ft swells. Those are very significant waves and the honest truth is, most people don't estimate wave height very well. I have read studies that show when most people think waves are usually twice as high as they really are. Regardless of that, it's a bad deal.

I may get shot for this, but here it goes...Cobalts are great boats, but they are not designed for 6/8/10ft waves. Maybe some of the 3x series would do ok. If a 10ft wave broke over the bow in the R series, it's going to crush the bow cover and flood the boat. You are talking about 100's of gallons at once. Think about it. Lets say a wave hits and 100 gallons (for easy math) gets dumped at once. That's 800+ pounds dumped in the front on a boat that probably has 1200-1400 lb capacity and immediately settles in the back where you have 2 1.25" drains into the bilge. It's a bad situation. The scuppers we have in our boats are not designed to clear large amounts of water...they are designed to drain wet bathing suits and water toys and maybe an occasional rain shower. Look at the scuppers on true offshore boats, either power or sailing...they are designed to clear a cockpit of green water in seconds. The second problem is with our boats is that the engines are not designed to deal with massive water intrusion. Once that much water got in the bilge, the engine isn't going to last very long. That's why try blue water boats have scuppers that drain overboard, not into the engine bays. Think about it. 800 gallons with an 800/1000 gph bilge pump....what's the drain time on that. That's why when I see the videos of people taking their boats to the Bahamas from Florida I cringe. One thing goes wrong and your done. I probably look at this differently than most as I've spent some time in bluewater boats and there really are fundamental differences. Be smart and you'll be safe.

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Re: What We Can Learn From This Accident?

Post by Bfun220 »

sailor55330 wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:31 pm It's a sad situation for certain, but possibly avoidable. I understand that sometimes weather will come up unexpectedly but at the end of the day, it was probably avoidable with vigilance. I am highly skeptical that there were 10ft waves on an inland lake or even 6ft swells. Those are very significant waves and the honest truth is, most people don't estimate wave height very well. I have read studies that show when most people think waves are usually twice as high as they really are. Regardless of that, it's a bad deal.
I'm guessing you've never see the great lakes ?
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Re: What We Can Learn From This Accident?

Post by sailor55330 »

Great Lakes yes. Inland mountain lakes are in a different class. I’m not saying those size of waves couldn’t happen, but outside of the Great Lakes the chances of that size wave are much less. The lake the accident happens on was roughly 109 sq miles. Superior is a little over 31,000 square miles. Not a fair comparison really. Bad weather can happen anywhere and unfortunately that time it did with the wrong watercraft in its way.
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Re: What We Can Learn From This Accident?

Post by Kate »

“That day we were sending out information about strong, gusty winds behind thunderstorm outflow across Northern Utah, and moving across Cache Valley, and that sort of thing,” said the area's chief meteorologist. “You can go to our website and click right on Bear Lake and get a forecast — see what the expected wind speeds are for that day, see if there’s going to be thunderstorms that day. Then in real time you can listen to NOAA radio for updates."

And then this piece of life-saving advice: “Know the weather, and know the body of water you’re on.There’s a lot of ‘knowing’ to do. It’s not just turn the boat key on and go out and buzz it, go out and have fun. It’s a lot more than that, and a lot of folks omit that preparation.”

Ignorance kills. So does the failure to spend some $120 on a hand-held radio. Besides the senseless loss of life (children!), what irks me about such disaster stories is that there's rarely an identification of the underlying cause. The reports are superficial: A litany of pain and suffering, then pleas for sympathy. How about asking these questions: Was it avoidable? If so, how? Who (if anyone) is to blame? That boater was a fool. Why are so many people afraid to name the obvious? (That question is not directed at any person on this Forum.)
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