Thinking of converting from Surge to EOH

[bruceb58]

I know how the system works. The truck supplies plenty of current to run an EOH system. All 3 of my stock Ford’s work fine with them and there are hundreds of thousands on the road doing the same.

My bet is that the super duty has a LOT bigger wire. My '18 F-150 has extremely small wire.

Here is a picture. The red wire I am holding as an example is 16AWG. Just the bare stripped wire itself has a greater diameter than the orange wire(+12v supply) with its insulation!! This is at the back of the 7 pin connector. Again, the brake controller setting has NOTHING to do with the +12V supply wire.

I have a Titan BrakeRite actuator. The Hydrastar also uses about the same current as my unit.

I did a test where I put a battery on my tongue with large wires going to the junction box that the EOH hooks to. With no voltage drop, the EOH works properly.

[Snowman8]

I know how the system works. The truck supplies plenty of current to run an EOH system. All 3 of my stock Ford’s work fine with them and there are hundreds of thousands on the road doing the same.

My bet is that the super duty has a LOT bigger wire. My '18 F-150 has extremely small wire.

Here is a picture. The red wire I am holding as an example is 16AWG. Just the bare stripped wire itself has a greater diameter than the orange wire(+12v supply) with its insulation!! This is at the back of the 7 pin connector. Again, the brake controller setting has NOTHING to do with the +12V supply wire.

I have a Titan BrakeRite actuator. The Hydrastar also uses about the same current as my unit.

I did a test where I put a battery on my tongue with large wires going to the junction box that the EOH hooks to. With no voltage drop, the EOH works properly.

Again, I know how the system works I was a mechanic at a ford dealership for nearly 12 years at a dealer in a rural community. I have wired so many brake controller systems I can’t remember. The 12v wire supplies power to run the brake actuator and the brake controller gain is set as to how much braking is needed/pressure supplied by the actuator. I know my way around the system... You can’t tell me that any of the big 3 would pre-wire a braking/charging system that was insufficient, it would be a HUGE liability. They know what they are doing. Read my earlier post, I own a 19 F150 and a 17 F350, even my 16 F150 worked fine with EOH. To each their own, I’m out.

[bruceb58]

I am an EE and I measured the 9V at the brake controller while it was operating during my troubleshooting.

Just making people aware of a potential issue if they decide to go EOH.

My previous Chevy Silverado with the same trailer did not have the same issue.

[dustinm]

I think we can conclude from this if 4 pickups do not have a problem and the 5th does, the one with a voltage drop has a bad connection somewhere.

[Big Block Power]

So ill stay out of this one
These systems draw what 30 to 40 amps.
I don't know how Ford wires these. Do they have a relay in the system? Those wires to me are too small for that much current. I agree so that's why I'm thinking there should be a relay in the system? I Have never worked on EOH before. I remember t5billion adding relays or something to his. I'll text him to see if he will chime in.
I also agree the big 3 manufacturers know what they are doing and we never have issues on our rams not working.

[thunder550]

So ill stay out of this one
These systems draw what 30 to 40 amps.
I don't know how Ford wires these. Do they have a relay in the system? Those wires to me are too small for that much current. I agree so that's why I'm thinking there should be a relay in the system? I Have never worked on EOH before. I remember t5billion adding relays or something to his. I'll text him to see if he will chime in.
I also agree the big 3 manufacturers know what they are doing and we never have issues on our rams not working.

The relays I added were before the EOH...that was a way to manually engage the reverse lockout on the surge brakes while not in reverse, so I could avoid dragging the brakes all the way down a hill while engine braking with the tow vehicle.

As for current on the system, I have no idea....I do know that the brake controller has to be set specifically for EOH, and some won't work with it.

I've been nothing but happy with my system...I went from a 2 wheel disc surge system to a 4 wheel disc EOH system, with the Hydrastar actuator and a Tekonsha Prodigy P3 brake controller. It's fantastic.


**edit - there's a wiring diagram on this page that shows 25-40 amps on the battery charge circuit being used to power the actuator.
https://www.etrailer.com/question-95876.html

[mdadgar]

I've been nothing but happy with my system...I went from a 2 wheel disc surge system to a 4 wheel disc EOH system, with the Hydrastar actuator and a Tekonsha Prodigy P3 brake controller. It's fantastic.

The Prodigy specifically says that it's not compatible with EOH brakes.

- Mark

[AsLan7]

I've been nothing but happy with my system...I went from a 2 wheel disc surge system to a 4 wheel disc EOH system, with the Hydrastar actuator and a Tekonsha Prodigy P3 brake controller. It's fantastic.

The Prodigy specifically says that it's not compatible with EOH brakes.

- Mark

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I'm curious where you read that Mark.
The info from the Tekonsha Prodigy P3 Brake controller website (Model N90195) that T5billion installed shows that it is compatible with EOH.
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Installation instructions here.
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[mdadgar]

Ahh, sorry, my mistake. You wrote Prodigy P3 and I read it as Prodigy RF.

The P3 supports EOH and the RF does not.

This bit me when I ordered my custom trailer - the trailer company noticed the RF restriction when they went to mount the controller and they had to quickly switch the trailer back to surge brakes while I was driving down to Los Angeles to pick it up.

- Mark

[bruceb58]

Yep...my Prodigy P3 that I used on my Chevy Silverado had a setting for EOH.

I actually tried it in both EOH and non EOH mode and I could never tell the difference. I believe in EOH, it pulses the voltage higher for a moment to allow the pump time to build up pressure faster.

[bruceb58]

So ill stay out of this one
These systems draw what 30 to 40 amps.
I don't know how Ford wires these. Do they have a relay in the system? Those wires to me are too small for that much current. I agree so that's why I'm thinking there should be a relay in the system? I Have never worked on EOH before. I remember t5billion adding relays or something to his. I'll text him to see if he will chime in.
I also agree the big 3 manufacturers know what they are doing and we never have issues on our rams not working.

Ford, at least for the late model F-150, has a trailering module that turns on the 12V when it senses a battery load. Unfortunately, the EOH doesn't represent a battery load so you have to put on a fake load like a load resistor. I actually did what is recommended in a few places and put in a switch to send 12V straight to the 7 pin connector near the trailering module to bypass it. Problem is, that 18 gauge wire or whatever it is, can not support the 20 to 30A with out a large voltage drop.

[bruceb58]

The relays I added were before the EOH...that was a way to manually engage the reverse lockout on the surge brakes while not in reverse, so I could avoid dragging the brakes all the way down a hill while engine braking with the tow vehicle.

Normally, with an EOH, the brakes won't be applied while engine braking unless your foot is on the brake pedal at the same time. That's one reason why the EOH is so much better than surge...no dragging the trailer brakes going down a mountain while engine braking.

[AsLan7]

The relays I added were before the EOH...that was a way to manually engage the reverse lockout on the surge brakes while not in reverse, so I could avoid dragging the brakes all the way down a hill while engine braking with the tow vehicle.

Normally, with an EOH, the brakes won't be applied while engine braking unless your foot is on the brake pedal at the same time. That's one reason why the EOH is so much better than surge...no dragging the trailer brakes going down a mountain while engine braking.

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I like your prop spinning avatar Bb58!

[bruceb58]

I like your prop spinning avatar Bb58!

LOL...I just found it! it is actually a Mercruiser GIF. I used to have a spinning prop on another boating site but it doesn't allow moving GIFs anymore so its just stuck.

[AsLan7]

I like your prop spinning avatar Bb58!

LOL...I just found it! it is actually a Mercruiser GIF. I used to have a spinning prop on another boating site but it doesn't allow moving GIFs anymore so its just stuck.

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Moving avatars unite!