R3 with 300hp Volvo Penta - Top Speed 48.5 mph

[NautiGirl]

So,

I get that bigger power means better retained value later, but is it the extra few miles at the top end? Or is it the extra torque at the bottom end? I mean, if the speed difference fro 300 to 380 is 3-4mph and even the smallest engine will pull up a skier with 6 adults in the boat, why do people opt for the larger engine?

I speak to one dealer in western Canada who said that in Alberta, he was unable to sell a V6 in a boat despite the performance gains for the new series VP engines (2016+).

I guess I’m about to find out whether there is a buyer out there as I’ve listed my 210 for sale.

Why do people want larger engines /w more HP? Are we really asking that? Damn man, might as well ask why is a tree good? Why is the sunset good? Why are boobs good? Why are big American V8's in boats good? They just are...they just are.

I think you got it, extra torque, not just in the bottom end but throughout the power band is the name of the game in boating. The difference between our 190 and 222 top end is minimal, they both hit about 50mph on the somewhat optimistic speedo. Where the 6.2L shines is time to plane, and its ability to push you back in the seat anywhere in the RPM range. Drive a boat /w a proper V8 not some little 5.0 but a 6.2 or 8.1, no way you are going back to a V6 power plant.

Good luck /w the 210 sale, hopefully you can find someone who will purchase it despite the fuel vapor and power steering pump issues.

'MErica!

'Merica indeed. That could be the entire problem here - do Canadians not like V8's? I have a guy on my team at work that is Canadian. I will have to go get his opinion on this. He drives a Honda CRV so maybe it's just a cultural thing?

I mean everything about boating is a dick measuring contest. Length of the boat, options on the boat, size of the truck you are using to tow your boat, how loud the exhaust is on the boat when you pull up to the dock. How are you going to come to such a contest /w the smallest engine option?

[sailor55330]

If your ever curious about investing in more power.. you’ll find you’ll recoup a large portion of that in resale.

Let me just give you the resale on a 2014 R3. Using a snap shot from NADA.

For you R series folks I used no add ons, or trailer.. Just Engine power difference.



1 with base power.



2 with a 8.2 Mag up to HO





3D5BF41B-8083-485E-AB57-E33A7CCC5DF7.png


So is it worth it going in?? You decide..


Based on knowing your recouping a majority of the investment on the next move. Makes sence to me

I respectfully disagree with this analogy. First, if I am reading this right, the NADA chart is using the same list price of $80k and then adds $6k for the larger engine to the low retail numbers. Here's the problem with that. You probably aren't going to buy those two boats for the same price new. You are going to pay roughly $6k more in the beginning for the larger engine unless you are one heck of a negotiator and are able to get the engine upgrade for free, the 2 snapshots are not a fair comparison. So, to see if it is really holding it's value better, you would need to look at the actual % difference in retails with the adjusted cost of the upgraded engine on the base. For example.

Snapshot 1 and 2 both assume that the suggested list price of the boat is $80,827--no way that happens if they have different engines.

You would need to factor the cost of the engine in to the suggested list price of the second boat before you do the comparison. Snapshot 1 should be @ $80,827 and snapshot 2 should be at $$87,077. Based on that math:

Snapshot one shows a depreciation of 42% (47,440/80827)
Snapshot two (when adjusted for initial engine purchase) shows a depreciation of 38% (53690/87077)
The cost of the engine upgrade is 7.2% of the purchase price in this example.

So, you are getting about 5% more on resale because you spent 7% more on your engine upfront (80872/87077). Netted out, you have 2% of the engine upgrade cost that you didn't realize in the resale of the boat. Using the numbers in this example, that's about $1,741.

So, what does all of this mean? Absolutely nothing other than fun conversation. Get the engine you want for the reason you want, but don't necessarily count on it returning better resale--it is possible, but not guaranteed. And, if we are honest, on paper, $1741 over the course of 4 years is about $36/month-----get the engine you want and quit worrying about depreciation.

Unless you're BBP, then you need to play for rising gas costs.....which makes my R3 even more attractive to you in 10 years. By then gas will be approximately $743/gallon, so you'll actually save money by only having 300hp

[sailor55330]

If your ever curious about investing in more power.. you’ll find you’ll recoup a large portion of that in resale.

Let me just give you the resale on a 2014 R3. Using a snap shot from NADA.

For you R series folks I used no add ons, or trailer.. Just Engine power difference.



1 with base power.



2 with a 8.2 Mag up to HO





3D5BF41B-8083-485E-AB57-E33A7CCC5DF7.png


So is it worth it going in?? You decide..


Based on knowing your recouping a majority of the investment on the next move. Makes sence to me

I respectfully disagree with this analogy. First, if I am reading this right, the NADA chart is using the same list price of $80k and then adds $6k for the larger engine to the low retail numbers. Here's the problem with that. You probably aren't going to buy those two boats for the same price new. You are going to pay roughly $6k more in the beginning for the larger engine unless you are one heck of a negotiator and are able to get the engine upgrade for free, the 2 snapshots are not a fair comparison. So, to see if it is really holding it's value better, you would need to look at the actual % difference in retails with the adjusted cost of the upgraded engine on the base. For example.

Snapshot 1 and 2 both assume that the suggested list price of the boat is $80,827--no way that happens if they have different engines.

You would need to factor the cost of the engine in to the suggested list price of the second boat before you do the comparison. Snapshot 1 should be @ $80,827 and snapshot 2 should be at $$87,077. Based on that math:

Snapshot one shows a depreciation of 42% (47,440/80827)
Snapshot two (when adjusted for initial engine purchase) shows a depreciation of 38% (53690/87077)
The cost of the engine upgrade is 7.2% of the purchase price in this example.

So, you are getting about 5% more on resale because you spent 7% more on your engine upfront (80872/87077). Using the numbers in this example, that's about $1,741 or roughly 2%---in reality, it's not much of a factor.

So, what does all of this mean? Absolutely nothing other than fun conversation. Get the engine you want for the reason you want, but don't necessarily count on it returning better resale--it is possible, but not guaranteed. And, if we are honest, on paper, $1741 over the course of 4 years is about $36/month-----get the engine you want and quit worrying about depreciation.

Unless you're BBP, then you need to play for rising gas costs.....which makes my R3 even more attractive to you in 10 years. By then gas will be approximately $743/gallon, so you'll actually save money by only having 300hp

[cmattj]

Sailor. I wasn’t concerned about the retail amount. And I wasn’t tryin to knock pricing points on the model.

Simply showing what book value is on the engine upgrade after 5 years as an example.

I do like that you quoted yourself twice though.

[NautiGirl]

If your ever curious about investing in more power.. you’ll find you’ll recoup a large portion of that in resale.

Let me just give you the resale on a 2014 R3. Using a snap shot from NADA.

For you R series folks I used no add ons, or trailer.. Just Engine power difference.



1 with base power.



2 with a 8.2 Mag up to HO





3D5BF41B-8083-485E-AB57-E33A7CCC5DF7.png


So is it worth it going in?? You decide..


Based on knowing your recouping a majority of the investment on the next move. Makes sence to me

I respectfully disagree with this analogy. First, if I am reading this right, the NADA chart is using the same list price of $80k and then adds $6k for the larger engine to the low retail numbers. Here's the problem with that. You probably aren't going to buy those two boats for the same price new. You are going to pay roughly $6k more in the beginning for the larger engine unless you are one heck of a negotiator and are able to get the engine upgrade for free, the 2 snapshots are not a fair comparison. So, to see if it is really holding it's value better, you would need to look at the actual % difference in retails with the adjusted cost of the upgraded engine on the base. For example.

Snapshot 1 and 2 both assume that the suggested list price of the boat is $80,827--no way that happens if they have different engines.

You would need to factor the cost of the engine in to the suggested list price of the second boat before you do the comparison. Snapshot 1 should be @ $80,827 and snapshot 2 should be at $$87,077. Based on that math:

Snapshot one shows a depreciation of 42% (47,440/80827)
Snapshot two (when adjusted for initial engine purchase) shows a depreciation of 38% (53690/87077)
The cost of the engine upgrade is 7.2% of the purchase price in this example.

So, you are getting about 5% more on resale because you spent 7% more on your engine upfront (80872/87077). Netted out, you have 2% of the engine upgrade cost that you didn't realize in the resale of the boat. Using the numbers in this example, that's about $1,741.

So, what does all of this mean? Absolutely nothing other than fun conversation. Get the engine you want for the reason you want, but don't necessarily count on it returning better resale--it is possible, but not guaranteed. And, if we are honest, on paper, $1741 over the course of 4 years is about $36/month-----get the engine you want and quit worrying about depreciation.

Unless you're BBP, then you need to play for rising gas costs.....which makes my R3 even more attractive to you in 10 years. By then gas will be approximately $743/gallon, so you'll actually save money by only having 300hp

Wow that is a lot of math and words to come to the conclusion that the V8 is better in pretty much every way possible.

[tgrace98]

Sailor I think comparing fuel costs between a VP 300hp and a VP 350/380/430 will be rather minimal. With these newer motors all being small blocks it is kind of comical to compare the fuel costs. I don't think you need to worry about it until you start talking the 1 motor vs 2 motor conversation.

[BobRae99]

So,

I get that bigger power means better retained value later, but is it the extra few miles at the top end? Or is it the extra torque at the bottom end? I mean, if the speed difference fro 300 to 380 is 3-4mph and even the smallest engine will pull up a skier with 6 adults in the boat, why do people opt for the larger engine?

I speak to one dealer in western Canada who said that in Alberta, he was unable to sell a V6 in a boat despite the performance gains for the new series VP engines (2016+).

I guess I’m about to find out whether there is a buyer out there as I’ve listed my 210 for sale.

Good luck /w the 210 sale, hopefully you can find someone who will purchase it despite the fuel vapor and power steering pump issues.

I'm sorry, have I offended you? Your post seems like a bit of a slap down when all I'm trying to do is gain some knowledge here. As for the "power steering pump leak and vapour issues". The dealer picked up the boat Tuesday, replaced the pump and checked the fuel lines and tightened them, check the fluids, pressure washed the hull and it is on its way back to the slip now. I'll be back on it this evening.

[BobRae99]

Bob. Congratulations on trading yourself upward in only 68 days . Hey I’m glad you see the next vision clearer, and are fearless in your attempt!

One thing. Dealers order boats for stock based on price and what the market is quickly selling.

Why we don’t see a ton of 8.2HO boats or 430 6.2 versions is that the majority of the public don’t know any different or don’t care.

You bought a V6.. see my point.

Now if I’m ordering a boat.. everything changes and I’m checking boxes like a drunk sailor. ( sorry sailor)

The general public doesn’t even know what captains Call is?? Or with mufflers is more?? Naaaaah makes no sence for 5 k ..

But as you are now only 68 days in in your education.. You understand what 80 percent of first time boat owners don’t.

Looking forward to seeing your next adventure!

Be drunk sailor

My plan was to use the 210 for a few years and then if I was really enjoying the boat, move up a bit in size and power. The thing is, this boat is a lot of fun and I really appreciate just how well it is built and how solid it is, after being in several other boats in the marina. So after only 68 hours, I know Cobalt has me hooked.

My boat was a leftover boat that I bought in February at a steal of a price and I see that two year old 210s in Ontario are going for $15,000 CAD over what I have into my boat and these are boats with 70 - 100 hours on them.

I also see that as we head to the end of the season up here in Canada, dealers have some 2018 R3s in stock with 300HP and 350HP engines at decent discounts (though not as much off as I received on my boat) and all new boats coming into the country are now subject to a 10% import duty. that is adding $7,000 - $9,000CAD to the cost of a new R3.

So I was thinking that now would be a good time to move up to a larger boat if I'm thinking that is my long-term plan. Once the current pre-duty inventory is sold through, any boat is going to cost me $10,000 more. So, my boat gets a lift in value because of the duty and if I can find a dealer that doesn't want to carry an R3 through the winter ....

[tgrace98]

Bob. Congratulations on trading yourself upward in only 68 days . Hey I’m glad you see the next vision clearer, and are fearless in your attempt!

One thing. Dealers order boats for stock based on price and what the market is quickly selling.

Why we don’t see a ton of 8.2HO boats or 430 6.2 versions is that the majority of the public don’t know any different or don’t care.

You bought a V6.. see my point.

Now if I’m ordering a boat.. everything changes and I’m checking boxes like a drunk sailor. ( sorry sailor)

The general public doesn’t even know what captains Call is?? Or with mufflers is more?? Naaaaah makes no sence for 5 k ..

But as you are now only 68 days in in your education.. You understand what 80 percent of first time boat owners don’t.

Looking forward to seeing your next adventure!

Be drunk sailor

My plan was to use the 210 for a few years and then if I was really enjoying the boat, move up a bit in size and power. The thing is, this boat is a lot of fun and I really appreciate just how well it is built and how solid it is, after being in several other boats in the marina. So after only 68 hours, I know Cobalt has me hooked.

My boat was a leftover boat that I bought in February at a steal of a price and I see that two year old 210s in Ontario are going for $15,000 CAD over what I have into my boat and these are boats with 70 - 100 hours on them.

I also see that as we head to the end of the season up here in Canada, dealers have some 2018 R3s in stock with 300HP and 350HP engines at decent discounts (though not as much off as I received on my boat) and all new boats coming into the country are now subject to a 10% import duty. that is adding $7,000 - $9,000CAD to the cost of a new R3.

So I was thinking that now would be a good time to move up to a larger boat if I'm thinking that is my long-term plan. Once the current pre-duty inventory is sold through, any boat is going to cost me $10,000 more. So, my boat gets a lift in value because of the duty and if I can find a dealer that doesn't want to carry an R3 through the winter ....

You don't have to sell us Bob. Congrats on already thinking about making the upgrade to a R series. If I were in your shoes all the reasons you just listed are enough for me to want to upgrade.

We all do the same thing. My first boat was a 20' crownline and had that for exactly 1 season, then I jumped to a 22', had it for about 1.5 seasons then upgraded to a 27. It is just the natural progression. I am now on my second 27' boat

[ajcampen]

So,

I get that bigger power means better retained value later, but is it the extra few miles at the top end? Or is it the extra torque at the bottom end? I mean, if the speed difference fro 300 to 380 is 3-4mph and even the smallest engine will pull up a skier with 6 adults in the boat, why do people opt for the larger engine?

I speak to one dealer in western Canada who said that in Alberta, he was unable to sell a V6 in a boat despite the performance gains for the new series VP engines (2016+).

I guess I’m about to find out whether there is a buyer out there as I’ve listed my 210 for sale.

Good luck /w the 210 sale, hopefully you can find someone who will purchase it despite the fuel vapor and power steering pump issues.

I'm sorry, have I offended you? Your post seems like a bit of a slap down when all I'm trying to do is gain some knowledge here. As for the "power steering pump leak and vapour issues". The dealer picked up the boat Tuesday, replaced the pump and checked the fuel lines and tightened them, check the fluids, pressure washed the hull and it is on its way back to the slip now. I'll be back on it this evening.

I agree that was nasty and uncalled for. Shame on him/her....

[NautiGirl]

So,

I get that bigger power means better retained value later, but is it the extra few miles at the top end? Or is it the extra torque at the bottom end? I mean, if the speed difference fro 300 to 380 is 3-4mph and even the smallest engine will pull up a skier with 6 adults in the boat, why do people opt for the larger engine?

I speak to one dealer in western Canada who said that in Alberta, he was unable to sell a V6 in a boat despite the performance gains for the new series VP engines (2016+).

I guess I’m about to find out whether there is a buyer out there as I’ve listed my 210 for sale.

Good luck /w the 210 sale, hopefully you can find someone who will purchase it despite the fuel vapor and power steering pump issues.

I'm sorry, have I offended you? Your post seems like a bit of a slap down when all I'm trying to do is gain some knowledge here. As for the "power steering pump leak and vapour issues". The dealer picked up the boat Tuesday, replaced the pump and checked the fuel lines and tightened them, check the fluids, pressure washed the hull and it is on its way back to the slip now. I'll be back on it this evening.

I apologize, it was a joke, which was perhaps in bad taste. Good luck /w the sale and the R series.

[sailor55330]

If your ever curious about investing in more power.. you’ll find you’ll recoup a large portion of that in resale.

Let me just give you the resale on a 2014 R3. Using a snap shot from NADA.

For you R series folks I used no add ons, or trailer.. Just Engine power difference.



1 with base power.



2 with a 8.2 Mag up to HO





3D5BF41B-8083-485E-AB57-E33A7CCC5DF7.png


So is it worth it going in?? You decide..


Based on knowing your recouping a majority of the investment on the next move. Makes sence to me

I respectfully disagree with this analogy. First, if I am reading this right, the NADA chart is using the same list price of $80k and then adds $6k for the larger engine to the low retail numbers. Here's the problem with that. You probably aren't going to buy those two boats for the same price new. You are going to pay roughly $6k more in the beginning for the larger engine unless you are one heck of a negotiator and are able to get the engine upgrade for free, the 2 snapshots are not a fair comparison. So, to see if it is really holding it's value better, you would need to look at the actual % difference in retails with the adjusted cost of the upgraded engine on the base. For example.

Snapshot 1 and 2 both assume that the suggested list price of the boat is $80,827--no way that happens if they have different engines.

You would need to factor the cost of the engine in to the suggested list price of the second boat before you do the comparison. Snapshot 1 should be @ $80,827 and snapshot 2 should be at $$87,077. Based on that math:

Snapshot one shows a depreciation of 42% (47,440/80827)
Snapshot two (when adjusted for initial engine purchase) shows a depreciation of 38% (53690/87077)
The cost of the engine upgrade is 7.2% of the purchase price in this example.

So, you are getting about 5% more on resale because you spent 7% more on your engine upfront (80872/87077). Netted out, you have 2% of the engine upgrade cost that you didn't realize in the resale of the boat. Using the numbers in this example, that's about $1,741.

So, what does all of this mean? Absolutely nothing other than fun conversation. Get the engine you want for the reason you want, but don't necessarily count on it returning better resale--it is possible, but not guaranteed. And, if we are honest, on paper, $1741 over the course of 4 years is about $36/month-----get the engine you want and quit worrying about depreciation.

Unless you're BBP, then you need to play for rising gas costs.....which makes my R3 even more attractive to you in 10 years. By then gas will be approximately $743/gallon, so you'll actually save money by only having 300hp

Wow that is a lot of math and words to come to the conclusion that the V8 is better in pretty much every way possible.

Nauti---the only place I don't prefer a V8 is in the towed weight. With that said, I do know a couple of late model v-6 owners who seem very happy with their boats, so it's all good to me!

[sailor55330]

Sailor I think comparing fuel costs between a VP 300hp and a VP 350/380/430 will be rather minimal. With these newer motors all being small blocks it is kind of comical to compare the fuel costs. I don't think you need to worry about it until you start talking the 1 motor vs 2 motor conversation.

Totally true TGrace-----it was more of an inside joke between BBP and my self---ongoing about him buying my boat someday but only if it had a big block....At the end of the day if an extra $25 in gas is truly a squeeze, then this may not be the right hobby. Boats are thirsty animals by nature.

[NautiGirl]

Eh - does the V8 even really matter in tow weight? The engine sits so far back over the trailer axles that I doubt it would contribute to the tongue weight much if at all. Tongue weight and payload is where most people run out of towing capacity first.

[BobRae99]

Good luck /w the 210 sale, hopefully you can find someone who will purchase it despite the fuel vapor and power steering pump issues.

I'm sorry, have I offended you? Your post seems like a bit of a slap down when all I'm trying to do is gain some knowledge here. As for the "power steering pump leak and vapour issues". The dealer picked up the boat Tuesday, replaced the pump and checked the fuel lines and tightened them, check the fluids, pressure washed the hull and it is on its way back to the slip now. I'll be back on it this evening.

I apologize, it was a joke, which was perhaps in bad taste. Good luck /w the sale and the R series.

It’s all good. I think if I was located in Ontario the boat would sell quickly, but where I am it might take a bit longer. I’ve found 4 new 2017/8 R3s for sale at dealers in Canada. All have 350 or 380 HP and Inthink I’d be OK with either. If a deal doesn’t come together, it’s OK, I’m getting a lot of enjoyment out of my 210.